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CONVERSATION LESSON

IDENTITY CRISIS

I think I’m going to start calling you “General Ludd.”

Nah. Come on. What are you talking about?

You always struck me as a little bit of a thuggy kind of …

Me? Are you kidding me?

Ludd sort of character …

No. I’m a lovable, huggable kind of guy.

Well, we are talking about General Ludd this week.

Yeah. That’s true.

Whether you want to talk about it or not.

I’m no General Ludd. Put it that way.

Okay. I thought it was an interesting name. I wouldn’t mess with a guy named “Ludd.”

It rhymes with “blood” and “mud.”

“Thud.”

“Thud.”

He sounds like a scary guy.

Yeah.

I think that was the idea. They created this “half scary, half a man of the people.”

Hang on a second. Hang on a second, Dan. Are you saying that Ludd was not an actual person, that it was a creation of someone?

Yes, I am.

Are you sure about that?

Actually, nobody is really sure. This was a long time ago, and some people think that he was connected to … A good thirty years earlier, in the 1780s, there was a young, teenage, some kind of factory worker who destroyed some machines. Some people say that his name was “Ludd,” and they used that name thirty years later to make this General Ludd. Of course, he could be the real deal. He could have just escaped.

I wonder. I wonder.

He could walk among us today, even.

He may be around.

Just like Elvis.

That’s right.

Just like Elvis. Just like the … Not like the moon landing.

Right. Right.

A lot of people don’t believe in the moon landing.

A lot, or some? I would say some. Maybe a lot of your friends …

I would say a lot of crazy people believe that the US astronauts never landed on the moon, and that was all done in Hollywood studios.

In a studio. Right, and they have all this evidence to suggest that …

Right. They say the shadows, the lighting was a little strange.

Right. I don’t buy it.

You don’t buy the moon landing? Me neither.

No, no. That’s not what I’m talking about.

How are we going to get way up there?

Don’t put words in my mouth, Dan. You know what I’m talking about. I don’t buy the conspiracy theory.

The conspiracy theory. Right.

I think definitely …

You think it happened.

I know it did.

Right. Next thing you know, you’re going to be telling me that the whole flat Earth thing is a conspiracy.

Well, that could be. It could be, Dan.

A lot of people have uncovered the truth, that Earth is flat.

Earth is still flat, even though there’s a conspiracy to make people believe it’s round.

All right. We’re getting off track here.

That’s true.

Getting us sidetracked.

Let’s get back on topic.

We’re talking Ned Ludd.

Yeah. Ned Ludd.

General Ned Ludd. He was kind of like Robin Hood, fighting for the poor.

Right. A man of the people. That kind of guy.

Right. Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. I don’t know that Ned Ludd gave to anybody, but he was trying to give jobs back to people.

He had the good of the people in mind. If machines come along and take away the jobs of people who are trying to support their families, that’s a pretty disruptive kind of thing that …

I saw on the news, this law firm, this very big, reputable law firm had bought some new legal software, like a lawyer software, that was able to analyze legal cases, and cost hundreds

of thousands of dollars. It had some incredible artificial intelligence.

Right.

Maybe that’s the future.

Maybe that could be the future of Deep English. We’ll be obsolete.

Maybe we already are.

Maybe we already are.

You’ve always struck me as a little robotic.

I don’t think so.

Maybe it’s all just one big robot’s dream. That could happen. That could happen. One day we’re going to have the instant language translators from Star Trek, and then where will Deep English be?

I think we’ll be riding the crest. We’ll be riding the wave.

I think that will happen in our lifetime.

Oh yeah. Sure.

Where they will be pretty accurate instant translation …

I think it’s around the corner, really.

But, it won’t be the same as really interacting and understanding that culture in the way that you do when you can actually speak the language.

Absolutely. There’s a whole experience that goes with it, a feeling of seeing the world from a different perspective, and in a visceral way, and an emotional way, that you get when you’re able to formulate words in a different language. You’re not going to get that with a translation machine. It’s a very cold kind of thing. There will still be benefits to …

Yeah. Language is about connection, and having that artificial software … Don’t buy it, people. Stick with Deep English.

We’re not going anywhere.

It’s not good.

We’ll still teach you.

That certainly is going to be a continuing problem: people losing their jobs as …

As technology advances, and artificial intelligence unfolds.

Artificial intelligence advances … Until we’re at Terminator/End of Days.

Again, that’s sort of a very negative view of where it could be. You could also …

Arnold Schwarzenegger is not a negative.

He’s just big and strong and conservative.

He’s an American-Austrian hero.

Okay.

Yeah. Luddites … I guess the main theme of that story is that these people were pushed into a corner, and what people will do when they feel their very existence is at stake.

That’s right, and that’s one of the ongoing issues with the rapid development of technology, is how disruptive it can be of the status quo, and how disruptive it can be of the way we normally do things, and how that creates a lot of fear in people.

Especially with the Internet, you hear a lot of fear that, “Oh, Twitter and Facebook, it’s killing our ability to communicate.”

Right. Or, “These smartphones. Our youth are staring into them constantly, and they’re not connecting with each other the way we used to when we were younger.” Obviously they are terrible things, right?

You know, probably some of those predictions are correct. We probably are going to change the way that humans evolve.

And the way our brain works. In many ways, the Internet and all of the tools that we use to connect to that Internet, and that provide us with apps and things; it’s really an extension of our brain, in a way. Some might argue it’s an extension of our very identity.

Yeah, and our ability to be able to figure things out without looking up the answer. Maybe that is hurting our problem-solving skills, or our skills to critically think about that. “Should I really critically think about this issue? Or, in five seconds I can find five experts’ opinions about this issue, instead of trying to come up with my own.” It was a good ten years ago, I remember talking to a elementary school teacher. She taught six-year-olds, or seven-year-olds.

This was in Japan, or in the States?

In the US. No, I think maybe a little older, because she was saying that they didn’t know how to use dictionaries, because they were so used to looking things up on computers and tablets that the school provided. They didn’t even understand …

Alphabetical order, or something.

Yeah, alphabetical … I think they could understand … They had learned the alphabet, they knew that order, and they know, “Okay, this word starts with ‘B.’ Let me look in the Bs,” but then they didn’t know …

The second letter …

Yeah.

Interesting.

I’m sure our ability to process, and slice and dice information is changing.

Yeah. It’s all evolving pretty quickly. Yeah. Luddites … Do you know any Luddites?

There’s different kinds of Luddites. There are people that reject technology, because they think it’s bad for us, and then there’s people that just don’t like it. They’re just frustrated.

Yeah, very frustrated, because they can’t use it. They can’t adapt to it. For that reason, they turn against it.

Right.

It’s, “Oh, I can’t do this. It’s too difficult for me. Therefore, I don’t need it. I don’t want it.” Right?

Right.

Even though if maybe they had someone to show them how to use it, and help them along, they might actually embrace it.

Right.

Who knows? I know a few people like that. Yeah. I know a few people like that. They tend to be a bit older. I don’t know any younger people …

I remember for yours I rejected cell phones. I really didn’t like the idea of people being able to contact me whenever they wanted. People would always say, “Just don’t pick it up.”

Easier said than done.

You’re actively rejecting, as opposed to just being ignorant of people trying to contact you.

What brought you around?

I waited years and years, and I thought, one of these days, somebody like me is going to come around, and is going to create a cell phone that only calls out, and doesn’t accept calls, and then I could be like, “Sorry. I got the “call out” kind. I don’t have … “ But, nobody else seemed to want that, so I gave up, and I had to get a two-way cell phone.

Other Luddites … Who was that terrorist bomber, who was bombing …

The Unabomber?

Yeah. The Unabomber.

Ted Kaczynski, or something like that.

Kaczynski. He was bombing universities.

Going after professors.

That’s why he’s the Unabomber.

Yeah.

I know that he was very anti-technology.

Yeah. He lived way out in the sticks, and he grew a beard.

Right. He was a professor before that.

Yeah. He was a professor at …

He graduated from Harvard.

I want to say the University of Michigan, but maybe it wasn’t. I don’t know. I don’t know which university it was.

He’s probably the most famous violent Luddite. I don’t really know what his trip was. Do you know?

No. I don’t really know either. He obviously went off the deep end.

Yeah. There’s probably a good Deep English story in there.

Yeah. Actually, that’s not a bad one.

Yeah. Luddites losing their jobs, losing their identity, or having their jobs stripped away, can kind of equal losing your identity. I think for a lot of people, I know that I identify as being a teacher.

Sure.

If I wasn’t a teacher, I wouldn’t curl up in a ball and cry, but I would feel like I’m losing part of who I am.

Right.

You, you’ve got all kinds of skills, though.

Oh, really. Like …

You can tap dance. You can hula hoop.

Hula hoop, belly dance …

Right. Belly dance.

Touch my tongue to my nose. Yeah, yeah. I’m multitalented.

It would be nothing for you. You could just transition. Me …

You could do anything you put your mind to, Dan. I’ll help you out, man. Don’t worry.

They say that the average US adult transitions seven times in their career. That kind of

seems like a made-up number, but I didn’t make it up.

You read it somewhere.

I read it somewhere.

Therefore, it’s true.

As long as I didn’t make it up. Seven times … I think there’s a lot of opportunity for educating people now.

Sure. You can always reinvent yourself.

For people … For the lower classes in the 1810s and 1820s …

That was it for them. That was what they did.

It’s like, there’s probably some other real low-wage job they can get, but nothing where …

I can understand the outrage.

That’s the thing that these Luddites … They were very highly paid.

As workers.

Yes. They were very highly paid, and it was very skilled, so they were in demand. Apparently they could afford to take a day off, and nobody could really tell them, “You can’t do that.” They had the money, and they were in demand. They actually made up a holiday called St. Mondays. They would just get drunk on Sunday night …

And not go in in the morning.

They would be like, “Oh, it’s St. Mondays. We can take the day off.” Apparently, I think it was the weavers, were known for carrying a five pound note in their hat, on display, like, “Check me out. Look at all this cash I got in the bar.”

I didn’t know that. They actually were pretty well off.

Yeah. They were really well off.

They had a lot to lose.

Yeah. They had a lot to lose, and their skills didn’t transfer to any other sort of job.

Wow. That was it for them. It was kind of a dead end.

That’s why they were really willing to put it all on the line.

Interesting.

Of course, the other story was …

The Russians.

The spies.

The spies. That’s right.

Well, Canadians, or are they Russians, or are they Canadians, or are they Americans? The kids …

Hard to say, huh? The kids, I would classify them as totally Canadian.

And American. They took American citizenship a couple of years before this thing blew up, so they actually had dual citizenship. They were raised, I think half of their childhood, in the US, so really, the culture in Canada, America … It’s not that different.

If you talk to a Canadian you might hear a different side to the story.

I don’t know.

They’re not a whole lot different.

I think even some Canadians would say that it’s pretty similar.

Actually, it depends on where in Canada you’re from. I think if you’re from the French- speaking side, it might be a little different, but …

I remember when I first started traveling there used to be Americans who would put the maple leaf Canadian patch on their backpack. They thought that would protect them from people who hate Americans. I have never been a super patriotic person, but I always thought that was pretty wimpy.

Yeah, amazing story that these young guys, they just had everything.

It’s incredible. It’s an incredible story.

The rug was pulled out from under them.

In a moment, suddenly their whole life was taken away from them. What I find most interesting about this story is the fact that even though all this happened to them, and they ended up in Russia, you can’t actually take someone’s identity away from them. You can only change their circumstances. I am sure their experience on the inside was, “Hey, I’m still the same person I was last week. What’s going on here? Why am I suddenly called a Russian, and why is suddenly my name changed? Why is suddenly, I’m in a totally different environment, and I’m treated so differently? I’m still the same. What happened?”

I think that’s probably Day One, but very quickly we start to incorporate the way other people view us. We reflect what society is throwing at us, and it becomes part of our identity.

Yeah. Identity changes. Sure.

All of a sudden they’ve got new names, they’ve got new passports, the older son in university, he’s got one more year to go, and in Washington, DC, you can’t go back to school. The high school kid, he gets into university in Canada. They won’t renew his Canadian passport, so then he applies as a Russian, and he gets approved. Right before he gets on that plane, or a couple days before, he gets a letter from the Canadian Embassy saying, “No, no, no.”

Can’t do that.

“You can’t do that.”

Wow.

Yeah. They’re suing the Canadian government, and I hope they win.

I wonder what Justin Trudeau has to say about this. He seems like a very enlightened

sort of leader. I wonder how he weighs in on it.

Like the US, the Canadian law is if you are born in Canada, you are a Canadian citizen. The only exception is if you are the son or the daughter of somebody working for a foreign government.

Oh. Okay.

That’s the rule that they say, “Okay. That’s why you’re not Canadian.”

You would think that the foreign government would put you to work for a corporation or something, so officially you’re working for a corporation.

What would that stop?

I don’t know.

They still wouldn’t be Canadians.

Well, but they wouldn’t be working for the foreign government.

They were undercover spies for a government. That’s another amazing aspect. I kind of have a respect for these spies, how deep they went undercover.

For so many years and years.

Decades.

Devoted basically their whole existence to making that cover over time. That’s incredible.

Can you imagine how … Their accent must have been incredible. They must have had a really flawless … Even when they first arrived in Canada, it must have been excellent, because how else are you going to convince people? They worked so hard at developing this long back story of Canada; the guy started a diaper delivery business. He had already graduated from university in Russia, and he went to university again in Canada. He got an MBA in Paris.

He went to Harvard.

He went to Harvard. He’s just building this deep, deep story. The whole time …

No one would ever suspect. Yeah.

That side, that dedication; that’s amazing, but then the other side is, he was willing to raise children with this massive lie.

Which raises a few ethical issues.

I can’t imagine doing that to a child. Can you imagine how betrayed they must feel, how conflicted? They even talk now, that they try … One of them said he tries not to judge his parents, because he knows they were doing what they felt very strongly about, and they felt was the right thing to do, but how could they not feel betrayed? Yeah. That’s the incredible side of the story. Not that their parents were spies; we hear stories about …

Sure. Every country has spies.

Now, with Snowden is releasing all this information about the US spying on …

Everybody. Even their own citizens.

Recently, what has come out a couple days ago, is about the CIA spying in Japan.

Really.

That is not really such a surprise. We hear about allies spying on each other all the time, but having that amount of depth, or that perseverance, to create a story that deep …

For that long …

That’s the amazing story there for me.

Yeah. It was a good find, Dan.

Well, there we have it.

All right.

Until next time.

Off we go.