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CONVERSATION LESSON

MIND GAMES

Dan: AC, what’s happening, man?

Aaron: Hey. Today, I have a mixture of feeling a little bit anxious and excited.

Dan: Maybe it’s aliens.

Aaron: No, it’s something much, much different. Today’s a very special day.

Dan: Yeah? What’s going on?

Aaron: Well, today’s the day that I have some news to reveal to you.

Dan: Oh! Exciting.

Aaron: I’ve been waiting for fifteen years to reveal it.

Dan: Fifteen years?

Aaron: Fifteen long years. That’s about how long we’ve known each other.

Dan: Yeah, I’ve known you for fifteen years.

Aaron: The truth is, Dan, I’m not your friend.

Dan: Uh-oh.

Aaron: I’m not your business partner. I’m not even your mentor.

Dan: You’re my father?

Aaron: No, I’m not your father. I’m here to tell you that I’ve been hired. I’ve been hired by your family to be those things to you because they knew that you needed it for your own mental health.

Dan: To be my mentor?

Aaron: To be your mentor, to be your friend.

Dan: All right, start mentoring.

Aaron: To be your business partner. I’ve been mentoring you and that’s why, todayDan: You haven’t done nothing!

Aaron: I’m revealing this to you because I know that you’re healthy now. You’re able to do it on your own.

Dan: You are a bum of a mentor. I want my money back, I want my family’s money back.

Aaron: Delusions, Dan. Delusions.

Dan: Delusions. I had a neighbor, growing up, who believed that … Actually, I’m not sure. He tin-foiled all his windows in his bedroom.

Aaron: Did he really?

Dan: He didn’t tell me this directly, I heard that he believed the tin foil was blocking the alien race or the aliens from contacting him. Something crazy.

Aaron: I see.

Dan: That would beAaron: That would qualify, probably.

Dan: That would be much more than delusional disorder. The key point seems to be, with delusional disorder, is the delusions, the fantasies are plausible.

Aaron: That means they could have some basis in reality or they conform to some kind of potential logic.

Dan: Right, they’re in the realm of possibility.

Aaron: Okay. As opposed to another kind of delusion like a schizophrenic delusion?

Dan: One common thing that I’ve read happens every year to dozens of people is people in Jerusalem who think they’re Jesus Christ. Apparently, that’s very common there.

Aaron: That doesn’t just happen in Jerusalem, right?

Dan: No, but I imagine Jerusalem attracts those kind of people from all over the world.

Aaron: Yeah, sure.

Dan: Yeah, apparently that’s a regular occurrence in Jerusalem.

Aaron: Interesting.

Dan: That would be non-plausible.

Aaron: Non-plausible delusion.

Dan: Yes, yes.

Aaron: Just like crazy delusional.

Dan: Yes. When I was first hearing this story about Theo, the secret agent, and Herson. I was thinking, Herson, what a sucker. Then, as you continue on, you see it’s not just Herson who’s getting fooled.

Aaron: Right. The police.

Dan: Even the police are starting to wonder. Maybe there’s something here.

Aaron: Yeah.

Dan: One thing I didn’t include in the story was much about the lawyers that Theo, or Josh, the guy with the delusional disorder. He contacted … I actually thought that was kind of cool, that he didn’t leave Herson, he didn’t hang him out to dry.

Aaron: Right, he kept him engaged and trying to help him.

Dan: He was really trying to get him out. He went so far as to contact these lawyers, which I just briefly included in the story. These lawyers, one of them was an ex-Marine who also had experience in the intelligence world. He says he gets this call from somebody who works for the Defense Intelligence Agency and he’s hearing this story about this secret operation they have. He’s saying, “It just doesn’t make any sense.” He says, “You’re in the Defense Intelligence Agency, why don’t you useAaron: Connections there to figure it out, right.

Dan: “Use some of your swing to get him out.”

Aaron: Right, yeah.

Dan: The lawyer said he had an answer for everything. He said, “Well, what we’re technically doing is illegal. Because of that, I’ve got to go to civilian lawyers. I can’t officially hire you, I can funnel the money to you.” It was interesting what, later on, he developed as the real reason he told the lawyers, and the police, and reporters later about why he was having Herson rob these banks. It wasn’t to test the security of the banks, it was to vet Herson for overseas spy work.

Aaron: Wow.

Dan: His agency needed to see whether Herson could stand up to the pressure of heated situations. Which, obviously, couldn’t. He was running away left and right.

Aaron: Yeah. What struck me about the story was just the power of a single person’s beliefs and convictions can have such a huge sway over other people and over life and reality. When this person believes that he truly is working for the CIA or some clandestine government operation, and truly believes that, when he communicates with other people, the power of his convictions come through. It becomes believable, even to people who should know better. It becomes really believable.

Dan: Yeah, I guess they don’t call them confidence men for nothing, right?

Aaron: Right, right.

Dan: There’s nothing like real belief to transmit true confidence.

Aaron: Yeah.

Dan: One of the things that both the lawyers and the police said was, “He projected authority and he really knew the lingo of the intelligence world.” Both the police officer who sometimes had to deal with CIA and other intelligence agents, being in that Washington, D.C. area, and the lawyers, they both felt like, “Wow, this guy really sounds like he knows something. Even though it sounds crazy at the same time.” What would you have done in that situation?

Aaron: If I were whom?

Dan: If you were Herson.

Aaron: Oh, if I were Herson? I don’t know. If someone came to me with that idea that I should be robbing banks for a job, I’d say no. Wouldn’t you? Under what circumstances would you accept that? I guess, if I really needed the money and I were desperate for something. I just don’t see what the long term benefit would be.

Dan: Right.

Aaron: That’s the only reason I would do it is for some kind of short term benefit, when I was desperate, I needed something.

Dan: Right. Apparently, Carolina … One thing I didn’t have space to include in the story was, Carolina was not such a willing partner.

Aaron: Oh, she wasn’t? She’s the one that introduced him, right?

Dan: Yes. It was because he was threatening her.

Aaron: Oh.

Dan: He was also dangling the carrot of, “You’re going to get some money and maybe I’ll get you a government job.” When she balked, he threatened her a little bit. He said, “I’m going to cause trouble for your fiance and your family. I’m going to pull some strings and get them in trouble.” Yeah, she was coerced into recruiting Herson.

Aaron: Yeah, wow. Yeah, what a delusion that guy had, huh? He just believed … I mean, I wonder where that belief would come from. Wouldn’t there be some kind of seed to that belief or some kind of incident that would happen that would cause a person to believe? Do you just wake up one morning and just believe that that’s what you are?

Dan: Apparently he had a history of impersonating different law enforcement. Maybe, in his world, he had connections to all of these agencies.

Aaron: Yeah.

Dan: The end of this story is, he was given probation in exchange for accepting medical treatment. Which, apparently, he did go to. He went to his psychiatrist or his therapist.

Aaron: But, a year later, he got arrested again.

Dan: Yeah, apparently he had contacted some hospital and was saying he was an ATF agent.

Aaron: Oh, right.

Dan: He was demanding hospital rooms to conduct some investigation. The security at the hospital thought, “This sounds a little strange.” It was this guy again.

Aaron: Oh, gosh.

Dan: Apparently, when they raided his house, they found a book on the CIA. Obviously, he was very good at gathering information. I think he must have been some sort of hacker or something becauseAaron: Yeah, I wonder what his livelihood was.

Dan: Yeah, it was hard to tell. He claimed to be some sort of technology or internet consultant but it was hard to tell whether there was any reality to that.

Aaron: Yeah, yeah.

Dan: Apparently, when he was younger, he had gotten in trouble stealing online fantasy game money. He had also been arrested for forging a judge’s signature.

Aaron: Okay, he had some brushes with the law.

Dan: He had a history of impersonating people. Yeah, yeah.

Aaron: Well, that type of delusion isn’t the strangest one out there.

Dan: Yeah? What’s the strangest?

Aaron: Have you ever heard of Cotard’s syndrome?

Dan: Cotard.

Aaron: Yeah.

Dan: No, what’s that?

Aaron: Cotard’s syndrome is a delusion where the victim, if you will, or the patient, believes that he or she is dead.

Dan: Believes he or she is dead.

Aaron: Or has died.

Dan: Okay, the person believes they’re a ghost that no one can see?

Aaron: I don’t know if they actually believe they’re a ghost. They believe that they’re dead but somehow they’re still here. Yeah, you can look it up online. There’s all kinds of stories of people who just believe that they’ve died and somehow they didn’t get buried or they didn’t end up where they were supposed to be and they’re just in the wrong place. They actually believe that they’ve passed away. I’ve tried to imagine what that would be like. That’d be pretty weird. It’d be pretty strange.

Dan: Well, you know the true history of zombies, from Haiti, is … We’ve got the zombie boom on TV with all these zombie TV shows and movies.

Aaron: Right, right.

Dan: There’s a true history behind that.

Aaron: I’m just making a guess here but maybe the voodoo practice?

Dan: Right, right.

Aaron: Maybe consuming some kind of liquid? A drug of some sort?

Dan: Yes. It’s a drug from some sort of fish, maybe related to the puffer fish. I’m not sure. I think it paralyzes you.

Aaron: That’s it. Yeah, yeah. Do you get buried alive or something like that?

Dan: Yeah.

Aaron: Inadvertently.

Dan: Well, obviously, it doesn’t stop your heart or you would really die. It can make your heartAaron: Appear as if you’re dead.

Dan: Yeah. Beat very, very quietly.

Aaron: Faintly, right.

Dan: It appears as you’re dead, you get buried by your family, and then, when you come to, you’re given hallucinogenic drugs and you’re beaten for days.

Aaron:

Wow.

Dan: You’re in this confused state and then you’re made to believe that you have died and that you now are a zombie.

Aaron: Wow.

Dan: They become slaves.

Aaron: Wow, that’s pretty intense.

Dan: Yeah. I almost wrote a Deep English story about it.

Aaron: That’s pretty dark, isn’t it?

Dan: It was a little too creepy.

Aaron: A little too heavy. Well, a very common delusion is delusions of grandeur. A lot of people suffer from that.

Dan: Sure, sure.

Aaron: They feel that they’re far more important than they actually are.

Dan: Yeah, sometimes feel that they’re mentors to other people.

Aaron: Yeah, exactly. They’re great human beings when they’re just completely normal, run-ofthe-mill, like you.

Dan: Right, I’ve met a few of them.

Aaron: Have you heard of the Truman Show syndrome?

Dan: The Truman Show, that was a movie, wasn’t it?

Aaron: That’s right, with Jim Carrey. Did you see that movie?

Dan: Yes, I did. He believed thatAaron: He was like an abandoned child who was raised in this television studio on a reality show or whatever. He eventually figured out that his life was a television show, like a reality television show kind of thing.

Dan: Right.

Aaron: He tried to escape it.

Dan: Yeah.

Aaron: Actually, it’s been a long time since I saw that movie. I don’t remember what ends up happening. There are people, actually, nowadays, this is a recent delusion in the last ten, fifteen years. People believeDan: Oh, this is recent? Since that movie?

Aaron: Yeah, this is a fairly recent delusion that’s come about.

Dan: Maybe since reality TV?

Aaron: Yes! Since reality TV, there are people believe that their whole life is set up and there’s hidden cameras watching them, they believe. I think in the past, pre-reality TV, you had people believing in spirits or ghosts, or whatever. It’s probably a sign of the times.

Dan: Right.

Aaron: You know? Your delusion can get attached to whatever’s out there.

Dan: Right.

Aaron: That’s interesting how people might feel that they’re on a television show and believe it.

Dan: Right.

Aaron: Truly believe it. Then, it raises the question, are you what you believe you are? If you believe you’re a chicken, in spite of what everyone tells you, that you’re not a chicken, you can’t possibly be a chicken. If you truly believe it, are you not a chicken in your own mind? In your own reality? You must be a chicken if that’s what you believe you are. The power of belief is so strong.

Dan: Have you heard of that delusion where you think that you’re an English teacher and you’re speaking to tens of thousands of listeners around the world? You’re really just all alone in a closet.

Aaron: Crying, in the fetal position.

Dan: Talking to an eraser.

Aaron: Yeah, I know a little bit about that. Actually, when it comes to the mind, belief, and how it affects reality, that little story at the beginning of the lesson, where they were doing a raid on a … Was it a bank?

Dan: Yeah, that was in New Jersey. An alarm went off and all these SWAT teams showed up.

Aaron: Yeah, it turns out, after how many hours? Like thirty hours of doing these negotiationsDan: Three hours.

Aaron: Oh, it was three hours. Okay. Well, anyway, they find out it’s just a cutout piece of cardboard or whatever.

Dan: Yeah, yeah.

Aaron: Imagine the feeling, at that moment. All the emotions that you went through and all the … The feeling of, “Oh my gosh. We went through all that nervousness and the fear, the tension, over nothing. It was nothing.”

Dan: Yeah.

Aaron: It reminds me of a story, a very well known, traditional story. I think it comes from Southeast Asia, or maybe India, it’s old. It’s almost a parable, really, about a monk who’s trying to get home at night. He’s walking through the forest and it’s getting dark really fast. Up ahead, he sees something on the trail. It’s a very narrow trail and the forest is really thick. There’s no way around this thing. He approaches very cautiously and he can see, in the dark, this snake that’s coiled up. He can’t tell if it’s poisonous or not but he’s starts getting really afraid because he doesn’t want to be stuck in the jungle all night and he has to get past it to get home. That’s the only way past the snake.

He starts freaking out. He starts really panicking. He’s got all this fear, his heart’s starting to beat. He’s like, “Oh my gosh, how am I going to get past this snake?” It turns out, he has something to make some fire with and he fastens a quick torch, just to give him enough fire to see what it is. Turns out, it was just a rope dropped by a previous traveler who had gone down the trail before him. He suddenly realized, in that moment, he felt this sense of peace, freedom, and happiness. Relief, basically, that this is not a snake, it’s just a rope. He walks past it and life is good again. He goes home.

Dan: Right.

Aaron: I think the obvious point of the story is to show us how the mind creates a lot of this stress and worry, unhappiness, suffering, difficulty. A lot of it’s just mentally created. I just wonder, when it comes to delusions, maybe we’re all living in a delusion. Our delusion is a normal delusion. A “normal” delusion and it’s a shared delusion. The delusions that we’re talking about in this lesson are people, maybe, whose delusions are different than the normal delusion.

Dan: Right.

Aaron: Maybe we’re all living in delusion. We believe in the ego. Dan and Aaron and everyone around us, we just have this delusion. Maybe is a source of a lot of difficulty. Anyway, I like that story. I think it’s a good story to think about.

Dan: On that note, let’s bring this to a close.

Aaron: Okay, sounds good.

Dan: All right, buddy.

Aaron: All right.