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##Conversation Lesson

Dan: AC, are you ready to talk about grit?

Aaron: Yes sir. I am.

Dan: True grit. That’s what they used to call you, right? Grits McCampbell.

Aaron: Grits McCampbell. No. I don’t think so. But I am feeling determined.

Dan: Yeah? Determined to do what?

Aaron: Determined to have a great summer. I’m going to get lots done. I’m going to exercise. I’m going to hang out with my family. It’s going to be a great summer. I’m determined to make it good.

Dan: Sounds like a pipe dream.

Aaron: The summer of misery. How about you? Do you feel determined?

Dan: I’m always determined. Change the world, baby.

Aaron: That’s right. That’s your nickname. Dan Determination Douglas.

Dan: That’s right. True grit.

Aaron: Triple D.

Dan: Did you ever see that movie, True Grit?

Aaron: I did. Yeah.

Dan: Was that a cowboy movie?

Aaron: I don’t think so, although it takes place in a cowboy sort of region, I believe.

Dan: John Wayne, right?

Aaron: I can’t remember. I did see the movie. I just don’t remember.

Dan: Yeah.

Aaron: It’s supposed to be a really good movie, actually.

Dan: I think there’s a remake. That’s probably the one you saw.

Aaron: Yeah. Maybe that’s the one.

Dan: Anyhow, we’re talking about grit, determination. Onoda. That man had some serious grit.

Aaron: Yeah. Onoda. That’s an amazing story.

Dan: Decades.

Aaron: Yeah. Decades.

Dan: Decades in the jungle.

Aaron: The war ended, but he refused to believe it.

Dan: Yeah. He would get, I think … The local people would tell him, leave messages for him, “The war’s over.”

Aaron: He thought it was a trick.

Dan: Trick. It’s a trick.

Aaron: He was extremely loyal.

Dan: Yeah. Who was it, I think, the commanding officer that they sent to see him decades later? That was the only way to make him give in. His compatriots, I think, in the beginning, he was there with two or three other guys.

Aaron: One left and one died.

Dan: One died. The other one gave up. He was just in it to win it.

Aaron: Determined. That he was. I guess he just survived in the jungle, and maybe built a shelter?

Dan: It wasn’t like he was just like, “I’m holding out.”

Aaron: Hunkering down. He wasn’t hunkering down. He was killing people.

Dan: He was killing people.

Aaron: Wow.

Dan: Yeah. I’m surprised that the local people weren’t able to hunt him down.

Aaron: That’s the only part of the story that it was hard for me to imagine. If there was a foreign soldier in my homeland and he was killing my compatriots, who were completely innocent, farmers or local people, wouldn’t the local people get together and hunt him down and put an end to it?

Dan: I don’t know. Maybe he was just like, maybe it was just like they thought he was like Bigfoot.

Aaron: I don’t know. That’s really odd.

Dan: It’s just like a mythical character in the jungle.

Aaron: Maybe. Yeah.

Dan: You think it’s a little fishy?

Aaron: No. I think it’s real. He wrote a book on it, or an auto-biography.

Dan: I’d like to read that.

Aaron: Yeah. It’s out. I think there’s an English translation of it. I haven’t read it, but I think there’s a book about it.

Dan: Yeah. I wonder what his life was like after returning after all those decades away?

Aaron: I think maybe that might be on my summer reading list. I should get that. That would be really interesting to know. I wonder what his life is like now?

Dan: We did a story … I think he’s probably passed away.

Aaron: Yeah. I guess so. That was a long time ago.

Dan: We did a little bit similar story about a … I think it was a North Vietnamese soldier a long time ago. He also was in the jungle for decades, but I think he knew the war was over. He just was like done with society.

Aaron: I see.

Dan: Him and his son. This guy, no. He was determined.

Aaron: Very determined.

Dan: Yeah. Until death.

Aaron: Wow.

Dan: What did we move onto? The Cunningham story.

Aaron: Yeah. The Cunningham story. That was pretty interesting.

Dan: I think a four minute, eight second … This was a guy who wasn’t supposed to even walk, and he ran a four minute, eight second mile, which, for the time, was a world record for indoor.

Aaron: Yeah. He was just minutes away from doctors making the decision to amputate his legs and he refused. He wanted to walk again. I had that image of him just, as a child, crawling across the floor. Just crawling, doing everything he can to walk again.

Dan: His father. What a piece of work that guy. You’d think he be proud of his son, and here he’s got to hide that he’s running or his father’s going to beat him.

Aaron: What did he say something about athletics is just for showing off, or something like that?

Dan: Yeah. A piece of work.

Aaron: I think he’s in the minority on that one. He must not have been much of an athlete himself, I bet. Yeah. His story. It’s pretty amazing that someone would achieve those type of goals later in life.

Dan: Right. You’re a runner.

Aaron: I wouldn’t call myself a runner.

Dan: You think you can hit a four minute, eight second mile? Come on? Stop pretending you’re thinking about it. I’ll answer this one.

Aaron: Not even close. In fact, if I hit seven minutes, I’d be pretty proud of myself. I could do a seven minute mile.

Dan: You’re into the long one. That takes some grit. You did a half marathon.

Aaron: No. That’s not that long. That’s only two hours of running. I met a guy recently here who, he runs these ultra marathons. A hundred mile …

Dan: Those guys are show offs.

Aaron: It’s just incredible. It’s incredible. They’re not show offs.

Dan: Everything me me me. Look at me.

Aaron: No. He’s a really cool guy, man.

Dan: Yeah. He’s got something weird thing going on.

Aaron: You know what shocked me? I asked him about his training, and he actually, his training is not that long. You’d think he’d be doing these marathons for training. No. He’ll run like 10 K, 15 K in the woods, in the mountains, whatever, several times a week. Then one day he’ll just go out and run 100 kilometers. It’s incredible.

Dan: Wow. What’s that all about? Why is he …?

Aaron: He just does it for fun. He enjoys it.

Dan: Young guy? Old guy?

Aaron: He’s middle aged. He’s probably about 40. Something like that.

Dan: That can’t be good on your knees.

Aaron: No. Probably not. Amongst other things.

Dan: Yeah. That takes some grit. That takes some determination.

Aaron: Definitely.

Dan: I’m sure it takes some sacrifice.

Aaron: Yeah.

Dan: You’re going to feel …

Aaron: Pain.

Dan: 50 miles.

Aaron: Yeah.

Dan: Some of these people run the equivalent of two or three marathons in a row. You’re going to be feeling pain that you just got to bear down and …

Aaron: Let go of, and focus. You’ve never … What’s the furthest you’ve ever run? Dan: Furthest I’ve ever run? I don’t think I’ve ever run more than five miles.

Aaron: Well, there’s always tomorrow, Dan. There’s always tomorrow. Just got to get that determination up.

Dan: How about that Sadhu? That takes some sacrifice.

Aaron: That’s a pretty crazy story.

Dan: Yeah. He was in a lot of pain for probably the first few years.

Aaron: I can imagine.

Dan: He really sacrificed.

Aaron: To me, it’s amazing that someone could make a decision like that and stick to it. It’s like, what did he do when he was sleeping?

Dan: He probably had the arm extended over his head?

Aaron: How did he keep it up? Did he use some poles or ropes or something? If you’re sleeping, wouldn’t it just fall down, especially in the first week or two?

Dan: You sound like you’re considering this for yourself. How am I going to do it?

Aaron: I’m just thinking of the logistics. The practicalities. How would …? Maybe it did come down when he was sleeping initially, but he just kept raising it when he’d wake up.

Dan: I bet after a short amount of time it’s going to stiffen.

Aaron: I wonder how short, though? We’d have to get a doctor to tell us that.

Dan: I mean, I wonder if there’s certain places he can’t go. There must be. I guess you could just bend over a low ceiling place.

Aaron: Yeah. You could just bend over. That’s incredible.

Dan: He’s really sacrificing. He’s really making a statement. I’m not of this world.

Aaron: This guy, he had a wife and children. He was living a normal life with a job and a family. He just left it all.

Dan: I think a Sadhu or a holy man is obviously quite unusual in India. It’s going to be a very very small minority of people who go to these extremes. I have heard that there is a line of thought that there’s a certain phase in your life where your job is to raise a family and make money. Then there’s a school of thought where they believe you’re supposed to graduate and then live the spiritual life and to turn your back on all of those worldly connections, your loved ones. I wonder if … I don’t really know that much about Sadhus. I don’t know if they keep connection with their family?

Aaron: I wonder. I don’t know. There was a time in my life where I had considered becoming an aesthetic monk.

Dan: Aesthetic monk? Where? You mean in India?

Aaron: No. In Thailand or something like that.

Dan: What’s that?

Aaron: Just becoming a monk, letting go of the life I was living and just devote myself to meditation and cultivating my spirituality. I considered it. Never made a decision to do it.

Dan: How close were you?

Aaron: Probably not that close. Not close enough to take any action, let’s put it that way. At that time in my life I was practicing a lot of meditation and yoga, staying in monasteries and practicing meditation, being very careful about … I was a vegetarian.

Dan: I mean, you were also a young backpacker. At what point does a young western backpacker in southeast Asia become a monk, versus just becoming a bum?

Aaron: Yeah. There’s a lot of people that do that.

Dan: Leeching off of the people in that culture.

Aaron: That’s one way to look at … some people … people go in many different directions.

Dan: I was reading an article recently. It comes up. I was reading an article about how in Thailand there’s a little bit of a backlash against backpackers who are begging.

Aaron: Who do begging?

In Thailand.

Aaron: Hippie backpackers?

Dan: No. Just backpackers, not necessarily hippies.

Aaron: They just beg just to get money.

Dan: Yeah.

Aaron: Oh. They’re not in robes or anything, though.

Dan: No. They’ll just put a bowl in some major subway station in Thailand.

Aaron: Just sit down.

Dan: Next to people who are really in need.

Aaron: Truly suffering.

Dan: Because they want to be able to travel more.

Aaron: I see.

Dan: They’ll put a sign like, “Help me. I need money to get to the beach.”

Aaron: That’s pretty bad. That’s pretty bad.

Dan: Thai people are not too happy about that.

Aaron: I can imagine.

Dan: Then there are these stories in Japan of fake monks. People coming from other parts of Asia on tourist visas, dressing up as monks, and begging.

Aaron: To make money.

Dan: Yeah. I don’t think it’s just foreign. I think I’ve read articles about Japanese scammers. It’s very rare.

Aaron: Very rare.

Dan: I think it does happen.

Aaron: I’m sure there’s scammers all over the world in all kinds of different disguises.

Dan: Yeah.

Aaron: Yeah. That Sadhu. That’s true sacrifice. Sacrifice your limb for a higher purpose.

What sacrifices have you made?

Aaron: I make sacrifices all the time. Every day. We all do. Everybody makes sacrifices. You’ve got to make choices. You can’t have it all. You’ve got to give up.

Dan: Got to give a little.

Aaron: Yeah. I make a major sacrifice working with you, right?

Dan: You should thank your lucky stars that I took you under my wing and raised you up. Otherwise you’d be in a gutter …

Aaron: I forgive you for your delusions. It’s okay. It’s okay.

Dan: … with a bottle of booze.

Aaron: If it weren’t for me you’d be in the loony bin, man.

Dan: I cleaned you off. You’d be homeless, my friend, were it not for me.

Aaron: It’s okay, Dan. It’s okay. You keep thinking that.

Dan: Grit. You’ve got some grit.

Aaron: You think?

Dan: You’ve been able to soldier on with losing your hair and losing your marbles, losing your memory, losing your wits, but you don’t give up.

Aaron: That’s true. I don’t give up. That’s right.

Dan: You don’t give up.

Aaron: Determination.

Dan: Yeah. What were you most impressed with? What surprised you most between the story of the Sadhu, Cunningham, and Onoda, the soldier?

Aaron: I think all the stories were really interesting, but I guess the thing that really got me thinking the most was what I mentioned a few minutes ago about the logistics of keeping your hand in the air long enough for it to atrophy and harden to that it would not fall on its own. I couldn’t imagine, especially at the beginning, the first several weeks.

Dan: Maybe it doesn’t … maybe it’s only like a month. Maybe he’s getting all these props. He’s milking this arm in the sky when he really only …

Aaron: Needed a month to do it.

Dan: Yeah. He still has to walk around.

Aaron: Yeah, but once you get used to it, I’m sure it’s like anything else.

Yeah.

Aaron: Yeah. I don’t know. That fascinated me, that part.

Dan: I think the story of Onoda. That determination to never give in, that fighting spirit. Of course, it’s always good to know when to quit.

Aaron: Yeah. Especially when the war’s over, man. That’s a darned good time to quit.

Dan: I’ll say. Man, If you’re a general, those are the kind of soldiers you want. Aaron: Yeah. Definitely.

Dan: I think the Cunningham story. What a turn around. That also was really impressive, but the longevity that Onoda had. I wonder what life was like living in the jungle?

Aaron: Yeah. What was it, 30 years? 25 years?

Dan: Decades.

Aaron: It was a long time.

Dan: Well, Aaron. I think it’s time to know when to quit. I think this conversation has reached its organic end.

Aaron: It’s over. Okay man.

Dan: All right. Over and out.

Aaron: Until the next one.